The next week, the Biden Administration sent a delegation to Mexico to begin enforcing border security on the Mexican side. And crossings plummeted. If you check the numbers, crossings plummeted. Now, that wasn’t spending billions of dollars. That wasn’t this whole political-theatre dog-and-pony show. That was about old-school, old-fashioned leadership, where you just talk to people, you roll up your sleeves, and you get things done.
According to a new Marist poll, sixty-one per cent of likely Texas voters say that undocumented immigrants should stay in the United States if they meet certain requirements. Thirty-five per cent say they should leave. Mass deportations have been a big part of the Trump brand and Republican policy in the last couple of years. Is the mood shifting?
I don’t know if the mood has shifted, but I just think people did not think border security is what’s happening now with these ICE raids, where people are being killed. Public safety should be nonpartisan. Public safety should be about keeping everybody safe. And what is happening is not that. It is distorted into something else entirely, and most Texans know it, and they see it, and they don’t like it. So I think what you’re seeing is just a reaction to a policy that is an abuse of people’s rights, and that is frankly, a security threat to each and every one of us in Texas.
Has gender played a role in your race against Governor Abbott? Texas obviously has had Ann Richards in the past as governor, so electing a woman to statewide office there is not unknown, however rare.
My role as a mother is something that many mothers identify with—P.T.A. moms, whether they’re Democrats or Republicans. And, in fact, it is my role as a mother that drove my education policy. And so I’ve always come to education policy from the perspective of a mother. In that way, over the last ten years, I have formed alliances and even friendships with MAGA moms who see in my fight for public school—I still have a son in public school—the same thing they want for their kids, because MAGA moms love their kids, too, right? They want a good education for their children as well.
Where do you find common ground with MAGA moms or dads, and where is it less possible?
When I was in Red Oak, Texas, where they’re fighting seven data centers that are coming into their community, we had conversations about cultural-war issues. They knew they had been sold out by Greg Abbott on data centers, but they weren’t sure about me because I’m a Democrat. And so they asked to meet with me, and it was really a privilege to engage in conversation. They asked me about whether I support constitutional carry? And I responded no. I said, “What you call constitutional carry, I call permitless carry, and I think people should have a background check to carry a gun.” I voted against that. I voted against what you call constitutional carry. They asked me about Sharia law and I said, “Well, I don’t really know what Sharia law is—”
What does that term stand for? In other words, when somebody from MAGA says, “I’m worried about Sharia law,” what in your interpretation do they mean or think they mean?
I think they think it means a religious law that is not their religion and that would supersede American and Texas law. And so what I told them was, “I’m for American law, I’m for Texas law. I don’t really know what Sharia law is, but I don’t want Muslim Texans to be painted with it and be discriminated against with it.”
But it’s coming from somewhere. This fear is coming from somewhere and sitting in Texas, as you are. Where is it coming from?
It’s being driven by our leaders. It is being driven by Greg Abbott. It’s being driven by elected leaders who have really turned the culture wars into this way to distract from people’s economic struggles. When I sat down with these people and I said, “This is my fear,” they said, “No, we don’t mean regular Muslims.” And I think maybe I moved them. And I think they moved me, because I said, “Well, I’ll learn about what Sharia law is.” They said, “You need to know about Sharia.” I said, “O.K., fine. I’ll learn about what Sharia law is.” And we agreed that these culture wars have been tearing us apart. The culture wars are not winnable, because the culture wars are about our differences. They’re about our lived experiences, and in that way they are not winnable.
Let me ask you about the struggle within the Democratic Party itself. You described yourself as an economic populist, but at the same time I don’t hear you associating yourself with the D.S.A. stream of the Democratic Party. How would you place yourself in that battle for ideas and politics in the Democratic Party?
I think the reason young people in parts of the country are souring on capitalism is because the capitalism they experience is this crony capitalism. It is not the pure and original capitalism that my grandfather built a business in—
What kind of business did your granddad build?
He had a plant in a seed business, and he supported our entire family with the income he made on that business, and now my uncles run that business. Our small businesses are really struggling to hang on, and sometimes it’s because the government is subsidizing these big multinational corporations that are putting our small businesses out of business. And, yeah, so, people soured on that. I think that is what is missing in this political debate, that capitalism in and of itself is not a bad thing. It can be a good thing. It used to be a good thing in this country. It’s just that it has been so distorted.
